Bigfoot Lunch Club's "A Man Who Would Kill Bigfoot"

Bigfoot Lunch Club has a post about "Dave" who is getting up an expedition to kill himself a Bigfoot:Interview: A man who would kill Bigfoot "Dave" is not his real name, which I find interesting. As I posted in the comment section to the post:

And by the way, why doesn't "Dave" use his real name? It strikes me as being cowardly. Yes, there are avid anti-No Kill Bigfoot folks out there, but, tough. He choose this path, deal with it.

Bigfoot Lunch Club posts some of the interview between J. Andersen, described as a "free lance writer for Associated Content" and "Dave":

J. Andersen: Are you concerned with the Ethics of shooting a bigfoot?

Dave: Yes and No, there's no law against hunting Bigfoot where I'm from. Most people hate me for what I'm doing and that's fine but the only way to prove 100% that it exists is by capturing one dead or alive.

To that, I also commented that law has nothing to do with this either. A law is simply a law, it isn't moral or ethical on the face of it simply because it is, or isn't, the law. I simply don't understand the thinking and motivations behind those that support a Kill Policy, and that includes some of the otherwise esteemed researchers in the field.

The BLC quotes from the article, which cites Loren Coleman's views on killing Bigfoot. Coleman's against it, but to my mind, not much, for he believes having one in captivity is better than killing one:

The first large unknown hairy hominoid captured will live its life in captivity, no doubt, and there it may be examined internally. MRIs, CAT scans, EKGs, and a whole battery of medical and other procedures may be used to examine it.

It is doubtful the first one will be returned to the wild, so, of course, it will die someday within the reach of future scientific examinations. Then it will be dissected, just as newly discovered animals, including various kinds of humans, have been for further study. But in the meantime, why not study the living animal’s captive and adaptive behaviors?

The days of Queen Victoria, when only killing an animal would establish it was real and not folklore, are, indeed, long gone. --Loren Coleman 2/6/2006

To be fair, it's possible Coleman was describing a scenario, and not promoting a personal viewpoint on what should be done.

As I said in my comment at Bigfoot Lunch Club, witnesses know Bigfoot exists. No proof is necessary for them, but, for some witnesses the torment they go through in not being believed, in having their sanity questioned, having their spouses, children, close friends mock them; well, Bigfoot body, dead or captured, would put a stop to all that. And yet, even in those cases, it's not enough. It's just not enough to condone killing or capturing a Bigfoot. I'll amend that and exchange killing for murdering.

People who support a Kill Policy, (as well as a captured one) also neglect to think their murdering-of-a-mystery-beast-quest through. Researcher Autumn Williams brought up this issue at her presentation at the Oregon Sasquatch Symposium in June. So a BF has been murdered or captured, now what? What laws will be put in place to protect the creature? What agencies will be involved, who will have jurisdiction? Will laws vary from state to state -- from county to county?-- and should they? What about habitats? How does that impact humans? Local economies? And so on, oh what a can of worms will be opened if that ever happens.

But for me, it gets down to only one thing: an unhealthy obsession with satisfying a personal thrill-kill blood thirst. For some its buried pretty deep, hidden under what strikes me as self-righteous pronouncements about "in the name of science," for others, they're more overt and upfront, and are simply out to solve a mystery -- if killing murdering a Bigfoot is the way to do it, so be it. Whatever the level of murder-lust, capturing or killing murdering a Bigfoot is wrong. It's not something I support, and never will.

Snarly Skepticism . . . (and Unofficial JREF Watch): The Search For Bigfoot: Kitakaze and his "Accusations"

I comment a bit at my blog Snarly Skepticism on Melissa Hovey's (The Search for Bigfoot) post on uber-skeptoid "Kitakaze" :

Snarly Skepticism . . . (and Unofficial JREF Watch): The Search For Bigfoot: Kitakaze and his "Accusations"

Yeti/Wild Thing Synchronicity

I had a very disturbing dream last night. I think it was because I was coming down with something and my body/subconscious was reacting to that, because after I was awake for about an hour, I suddenly felt clammy, chilled, sore throat -- fall crud. The dream sounds almost funny in some ways but it was very scary, just your basic all around nightmare. Something about the Yeti, with giant claws, ripping people apart. And smaller sized Yetis -- in the dream, they were called "Yet-its" -- who looked more like stuffed toys than real creatures. They were watching the big monster Yeti dismembering people, their bodies (or, pieces of their bodies) slowly slip down the outside of the glass on the windows of the second floor room where I was watching all this, and damn glad of course I wasn't one of the victims. Blood, guts, human body parts, all sliding down the glass. The "Yet -its" were shocked, and sad, at this, because the big monster Yeti wasn't supposed to be a murderous monster, but something went wrong.

I was telling someone at work about this dream and described the "Yet-its" as looking like the characters from Where the Wild Things Are. And a minute later, someone walks into the room with a T-shirt with a large monster character from the book, with the title, in large letters: Where the Wild Things Are.

So, owls and Yetis and Wild Things; a message, synchronicity? Maybe the "message" is simply the appearance of the synchronicities themselves, appearing in animal form, since that's where I like to be -- in the animal realm.

As to the nature of the yucky dream; had another violent dream the night before that, though not involving animals. Sadly, a person I know. Some personal issues in my life right now. Not surprising, given that and my run down state, that my dream mind conjures up attacking Yetis!

Lon Strickler on "The Bigfoot Paradox"

I'm a contributor to The C-Influence blog, along with Bruce Duensing, Lon Strickler of Phantoms and Monsters, Bruceleeeowe, Eric Ouellet, J.S. Flower,John Carlson, Lesley Gunter, and Rick Phillips. The idea of the blog is to have "seed posts," -- an article by a contributor --  about esoteric subjects that generates discussion and responses by other blog members. Pretty neat, and different, idea!

Currently, Lon has a great post about paranormal Bigfoot: Visit the blog, read Lon's excellent post, and the equally interesting responses by blog contributors, including me :)

Jovial Guy in Grey Bigfoot Suit

I've been keeping an animal journal, which I posted about on Women Of Esoterica. My intent was to write about animals, but I soon realized that "animal" means a lot of things other than the expected. Last night I was writing in my journal about cryptids, shape shifters, mixed energies, inter-dimensional beings...I'm pretty sure this will turn into something. I had the following dream after writing in my journal last night:

I go see about some land for sale here in Oregon. "39.4" acres for incredibly cheap. I go alone; arriving, there is a man who's clearly some kind of guard to this little town, which is very odd. He lets me by. He's not armed or even threatening, but it is ... odd. I continue on, meeting up with a pleasant man in his early forties, maybe. Friendly person, telling me all about the property. We're standing in the middle of a highway. No people around or cars, out in the country. What's extremely weird is that, as soon as I passed the "guard" earlier, the landscape changed radically. Suddenly, I am surrounded by high, sharp, jutting mountains covered in snow, it's cold, the water (ocean? lake?) on one side of the highway, surrounded by these very high and close mountains, is grey and choppy. I'm a little nervous, the water is almost up to the road. And on the other side of the highway, across from the water and mountains, the land just goes straight up, very steep. I'm told this is "Wyoming-Idaho" in Oregon. I say, in the dream, (a lucid moment?) that there's no such thing, and what is Wyoming doing in Oregon?! The man thinks that's funny.


He continues telling me bout the land, that's it's a great deal (it is), it's all just land, but one thing to be aware: there are poachers that "encroach on the edges," as he puts it. I'll have to deal with them as I see fit, he says.


As we're talking, suddenly a man in what is obviously a very bad, very cheap Bigfoot costume, (light grey in color) steps out onto the road. The man says, in a mock frightened tone, "Oh, look, look! It's Bigfoot! Bigfoot is here!" and they both crack up. The guy in the BF suit goofs around, stomping and clowning, and then takes off. 


All this time I am not amused, and am just looking at them. The man says to me,"You don't think that's funny?" and I'm thinking to myself, what a maroon, another joker, and a Bigfoot debunker. Great. But I'm not going to tell him about my opinions on Bigfoot, or anything else.


Then the man says to me, very seriously, "You know, around here, we all know Bigfoot exists. Anyone who's ever spent any time in the country around here knows damn well Bigfoot exists. You can't judge people on things like having fun."


Well okay then, I think. Interesting. So back to the land issue, but I tell him that I don't like the snow, or mountains, and I still don't like this idea of "Wyoming" being in Idaho-Oregon, and on the west coast to boot. It's all very suspicious. And why are all the townspeople, who I know are all around us, watching us, hidden? It's not that they're sinister or of ill intent but it is weird and I'm uncomfortable. 


The man says to me, "You didn't think the property was this place, did you? Oh no, it's not like this at all, it's back behind here," and he waves his hands around, indicating that the land is even further, and not snowy or mountainous.


I tell him I'll think about it, and tell him I have to leave. He stays there, I'm a little put out he's letting me go off on my own, after all, I don't know my way around. He stays put on the highway, as if he's under some type of interdiction to stay in that place. I find my way though and back to the guard, who also seems amused that I'm here. He doesn't help me with directions either, but I figure it out.

Blue Dog Intensity

Maybe it was because of my cheeky beginning in my response to T.G. Powell's, of the CryptoFlorida blog, comment on my previous post about so-called blue dogs: "Stop Killing the Blue Dogs" -- the murder of quasi chupie. I did start off my response to his comment with:

My but aren't we testy today?

I continued, in reply to his comment below:

"These animals are NOT anything but disease ridden common animals."

And I agreed that they are not chupacabras:

As was my point, they are not chupacabras.

My other point: that some people insist on calling these poor creatures "chupacabras" and kill them, not for "humane reasons" as you say you do, but because of fear. They don't know what they are, and they kill them because of that fear. That is not a reason to kill.

It's sad all around, and one question that hasn't been addressed, as far as I can tell, is why are there so many of these creatures, in the UK and elsewhere -- if they are mange ridden animals, why so many? Is it an indicator, like so many other animal signals of late, that the planet is in crisis?

I think you've misunderstood motivations here as well as being defensive.

As I've posted many times about these animals, if they are victims of mange or some other disease, why now, why so many, and isn't their conspicuous appearance an indicator of something we should be paying attention to?


Maybe it's because CryptoFlorida continues to misunderstood my purpose in posting items concerning blue dogs/chupie news. Or maybe it's because some people are just that way; obnoxious in tone and intractable. Whatever, Powell has posted about my abilities as a  "mental midget" and my "moronic thinking" in his post More Blue Dog Stupidity.

My main intent in posting items about canine type creatures who appear to have mange or other diseases -- or, who may be another variety of animal altogether -- is to point out the meme that any hairless looking dog like animal is a chupacabra for many people, and of course, these canines are not.  That is my point. As I wrote in that post:

 I've written before, as have others, that these so-called "chupacabras" seen in the Southwest  are not the crypto-creature from Fortean or paranormal realms. These hairless 'blue dogs' are simply mundane animals. Either mange or some other disease, or, as Lon Strickland of Phantoms and Monsters writes:

a hybrid species of Mexican wolf and another canine species. Ken Gerhard and Jon Downes have done extensive study and have written about this cryptid canine. I just wish people would stop killing the 'blue dog' just because it's been given the 'chupacabras' moniker. Below are previous posts on this cryptid...Lon

The key point here, as I've made many times, as I made in the post that has Powell distressed over,  as Lon makes in the above quote, is the fear trigger response to something perceived as a chupacabras -- there fore a "monster." 

I don't pretend to be a field investigator of blue dogs, and I don't say I know anything about them other than what I've read on-line from a variety of   researchers. Those researchers offer interesting views and, as such, I pass them along. It's up to readers to make up their own minds. I find it all interesting.

My purpose in posting about these items is to share my fascination with the fact that the name "Chupacabras" has morphed from the label of a truly unknown, possibly paranormal creature, to labeling obviously mundane creatures such as "blue dogs"  as Chupacabras. That's it. That's all. I quoted Jon Downes in that post:

It is a very weird and very interesting member of the dog family; it has nothing to do with this weird folklore," said Jonathan Downes, a former zoological journalist and self-taught amateur "cryptozoologist" from West Devon, England.

I'm not the expert, so can't speak to the reality of Downes statement, again, interesting and others will decide for themselves. Either way, what Downes says about this dog like creature not being Chupacabras holds.


However, within that context, I have said that it is sad people are running around shooting anything that moves just because they can. Fears based on some vague "chupacabras" creature and an unknown (those who aren't familiar with mange ridden canines, or are afraid of a new animal, if it's a new animal) kill what they don't understand. The way of humanity for eons.

In my previous post, Powell says he kills them to put them out of their misery; as well as to protect livestock and children, and he says the same thing again his current post. That hasn't ended things for CryptoFlorida however. A recent post on his blog reveals his thoughts concerning Frame 352:

It would seem as though there are those out there that refuse to give in to proof, DNA testing, and first hand experience. Frame352 is the latest in this line of moronic thinking. Basing theory on what those with arm chair experience and NOT looking at the over all picture. It would seem that letting these animals suffer by freezing to death in the frigid winters, or letting them raid chicken farms which the humans depend on for food, or maybe letting one that has gone hungry for a period of time, attack and maybe even kill someones small child while he or she is playing in the yard is OK with these mental midgets.

You can visit Frame352 to get the low down, if you really care too.

Well, if these "blue dogs" are a threat, and if they are also in misery, I don't know what to say, since I am not there, and have not seen or lived in that situation. Again, my points are this:

• The chupacabras label has moved from paranormal/unknown/cryptid creature to mundane, possibly new species of mundane, animal
• Too many trigger happy people in some cases reacting to what they don't know or fear by killing.

Bigfoot Goes Diving

 I found a great site on Facebook for 50s sci-fi movies: 1950s sci-fi and B-Movie fans. Clips from old movies, news on DVD releases, stills, -- great stuff. Like this one, where Bigfoot apparently goes diving. Who knew Sasquatch liked to scuba dive? :)

Sharon Lee: "the Ghost of Bigfoot and Mr. Mike"

Sharon Lee, from Bigfoot Field Reporter, brings us a thoughtful and odd item: The Ghost and Mr. Mike. This story isn't over yet.  Mr. Mike (not to be confused with the "Mike" in Autumn Wililams book Enoch) seems sane, rational. As some of us have commented earlier, if he is senile, or has dementia, how is it he's taking care of an invalid ninety year old sibling? Yes, it's very odd several Bigfoot would be hanging around someone's backyard, near a freeway, and yet, as Sharon writes:

A couple of weeks ago, a story was reported that a man was seeing bigfoots in his back yard.  Next to the freeway.  In the middle of town.  Well, it wouldn't be the first story about a bigfoot in someone's backyard.  Or by the freeway.  Or running through town.   

In some ways, Mr. Mike's story reminds me a little of Stan Johnson's (who is deceased) experiences. Stan lived near I-5 in Sutherlin, Oregon, and he met a family of Bigfoot on his property. Johnson wrote about his experiences with this family of Sasquatch in a couple of self-published books.

Mr. Mike's story does seem very strange, and yet, Sharon reports:

The History channel film crew has been on location for a little over 2 weeks now, and they are baffled as to what is occurring. The evidence they are capturing is extraordinarily mind blowing and unexplainable.  They are having spikes of activity on their FLIR thermal imagers.  They see nothing with their naked eye.  But at the same time the heat images appear on the FLIR, Mr. Mike sees them. 

Not the first time high strangeness experiences with Sasquatch have been reported. The afore mentioned Stan Johnson, for example, not only met a group of Sasquatch on his property, but had many interactions with them, including telepathic communications, verbal communications, and being taken aboard a UFO.

Prayers for Jerry Coleman and family

Sending prayers to Jerry Coleman and famiy and his brother Loren Coleman: Update here

From Phantoms and Monsters: "A Challenge to You: Interdimensional Sasquatch"

Lon at Phantoms and Monsters has a challenge for you: A Challenge to You: Interdimensional Sasquatch

I've maintained for the past year or so that Sasquatch may be something other than just a flesh and blood terrestrial being. There have been countless sightings (including myself) of this creature as compared to the amount of physical evidence retrieved. This fact has forced me question the true nature of the beast, namely...is Sasquatch an interdimensional entity? Is it possible that Sasquatch has the ability to move in and out of this plane of existence into an alternative universe? Perhaps you may think this creature is simply not an earth bound entity because it is actually extraterrestrial or of alien origin.

Lon invites readers to e-mail him with their theories. You know where I am on this! I'm looking forward to what Lon has to say as people send in their ideas and experiences.

"Stop Killing the Blue Dogs" -- the murder of quasi-chupie

I was just thinking about the sad aspect to the news items of so-called chupacabras canines being shot and killed by stupid "hunters" and the like, when I came across this post on Phantoms and Monsters http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/2010/07/stop-killing-blue-dogs.html"> Stop Killing 'Blue' Dogs!

I've written before, as have others, that these so-called "chupacabras" seen in the Southwest  are not the crypto-creature from Fortean or paranormal realms. These hairless 'blue dogs' are simply mundane animals. Either mange or some other disease, or, as Lon Strickland of Phantoms and Monsters writes:

a hybrid species of Mexican wolf and another canine species. Ken Gerhard and Jon Downes have done extensive study and have written about this cryptid canine. I just wish people would stop killing the 'blue dog' just because it's been given the 'chupacabras' moniker. Below are previous posts on this cryptid...Lon

I don't how the meme got started that these unusual looking canines were chupacabras, or why people are killing them.

Here's a quote from crypto researcher Jon Downes from Lon's posting of the article Searching for Blue Dog Facts:

It is a very weird and very interesting member of the dog family; it has nothing to do with this weird folklore," said Jonathan Downes, a former zoological journalist and self-taught amateur "cryptozoologist" from West Devon, England.

"Mr. Mike"

According to a post on Cryptomundo, "Mr. Mike" was seeing things. An investigator went out there to "Mr. Mike's" home, and site of the BF sightings, and determined that the witness was "seeing things." This 70 year old witness had detailed reports to give; which means, . . . what, I'm not sure, other than proving this is one more bizarre episode in the World of Forteana.

"Bigfoot Believers"

http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2010/07/06/local_news/doc4c336f90017c0019558558.txt">Bigfoot believers by Rachel Thomson
The Daily World

C’iatqo (pronounced SEA-at-co) is one of the many words Native Americans throughout the country use to describe the ape-like creature — commonly referred to as Bigfoot — that allegedly inhabits the wilderness. Martin, along with several Quinault Indians and members of various other Olympic Peninsula tribes, were interviewed this spring about the creature and its influence on Native culture for an upcoming show on the A&E network.

On Cryptomundo: Bigfoot to kill or not?

Once again the "kill or no kill" question concerning Bigfoot has been raised, this time on Cryptomundo. Lots of interesting comments. I feel very strongly about this, and so of course, had to comment myself.

I don't quite believe those who say they are operating under altruistic motives in maintaining their position of "we have to kill a BF in order to protect it." That sounds very presumptuous on my part, but I think it's a highly disingenuous thing to say. And for those that really do believe they believe that, I beg them to reconsider.

If protection isn't the reason, and killing a BF is simply the goal to prove it to science, well, no debate. I'm judgemental, adamant and stubborn on this -- no reason justifies killing (or capturing) a Sasquatch.

Bigfoot Found in Backyard!!!!! News At Whatever. . .

I get the most interesting things in my email. Here's a combo press release spam item:

Exclusive!  
Overnight AM producers have been contacted by a man claiming to have found Bigfoot living in his backyard somewhere in North America ( Location: Confidential ). The evidence is substantial and based on eyewitness testimony of a man whose life has been turned upside down by the creatures, a family of four.  
This is no joke...  Tune in live tonight starting at 10:00 pm EDT / 9:00 pm CDT to Overnight AM.  Now on Apple TV / Apple iTunes Radio, ( News Talk Station DCIX.FM ) Droid, Radio Time, Roku, Netflix, AOL Radio, Shoutcast, Mobile Talk Stream Live, TalkStreamLive.Com, iPhone, iPad, iTouch, Recieva and at DCIX.FM Live!
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JREF Bigfoot Threads: Easy Handy Dandy Link

Here's a link that takes you right to the JREF's list of threads about Bigfoot. There are pages of threads; I stopped counting after 70. Yep, over, waaaaaaay over, 70 threads about Bigfoot, about a creature they don't believe exists.

James Randi Forum: Bigfoot threads still going strong

I haven't been updating the Bigfoot Thread Watch over on the JREF; last time I think it was close to forty something seperate threads about Bigfoot. Just randomly, I counted twelve different threads on Bigfoot, -- some new, and some older that have been included in the previous counts here.

As I've remarked many times, for a being they don't believe exists, they spend a lot of time discussing it, from a wide variety of angles.

Related post: Bigfoot Fever: Bigfoot and the Skeptibunkers, Trickster's Realm for BoA

On a later post, I'll discuss my favorite BF threads over there.

Lisa Shiel: The Bigfoot-UFO Connection: A Hypothesis

Researcher, author Lisa Shiel on the Bigfoot-UFO issue on her site Backyard Phenomena. There is also Parts II and III.

Jaime Avalos, Bigfoot Tracker

My new Trickster's Realm column for BoA is ready; it's about one of the presenters, Jaime Avalos: Jaime Avalos, Bigfoot Tracker.

I attended Oregon's first Sasquatch Symposium in Eugene this past weekend, and it was fantastic. All the speakers I saw were great, including of course, Autumn Williams. On her very excellent and important presentation, more to come at a later time, as well as many of the other presenters.


I got to meet Craig Woolheater and Sharon Lee, both very nice and real people. I was disappointed I couldn't attend all the events but hopefully next year! And I do hope there's a "next year" -- Toby Johnson, the coordinator, did a fantastic job putting all this together. Planning events like this is not easy, as anyone knows who's been involved in such things.


One of the presenters I want to discuss is Jaime Avalos. Avalos has an amazing and varied background, which is posted on his YouTube channel. He's an emergency room RN, ex-Marine, taught water safety in the military, and much more.


Jaime came up on the stage dressed in gear; all black, complete with backpack, walking staff, goggles. He looked a little intimidating. But it was a good way of getting his point across to field researchers -- experienced and newbies alike. Jaime explained his points: wear black, so you're consistent. You're not wearing red one day, blue the next, but black, which makes it easy to blend in the shadows. Wearing black consistently serves the purpose of having the wildlife get used to your presence.

 Visit BoA for the rest!

The Bigfoot Field Reporter

Sharon Lee at Bigfoot Field Reporter has updates on the OSS --
check out her blog now and then for good stuff!