More from Tobias/Derr: Strange Bigfoot

An Update: For A Small Fee . . .

Maybe I was too harsh. I always feel bad when I “sneer” although that’s not what my intent was in posting the earlier piece. I admitted I’m a snob when it comes to writing styles; all that run on sentence stuff, with little or incorrect punctuation, just throws me off. And I admit the “for a small fee” comment got to me as well. Tobias insists that if any field researchers decide to pursue this and want to contact the witness, a fee for the photos (there are more) is required. Tobias has the contact information for the witness. See here for my first post on this.

I also don’t feel comfortable giving my phone number out to someone I’ve just me on-line; or getting that close to someone right off.

Still, Steve Tobias/Derr sent me another e-mail today, thanking me for the “fair” article I posted here yesterday. He explained himself a bit more about the “for a small fee” and sent me two images, which you can see here.

I can’t really say anything about this case, since I haven’t spoken directly with anyone involved,haven’t been to the site, or done any research at all. But it is interesting in the body of “weird Bigfoot data” and for that, here it is. I’m also, as always, interested in the people involved in things like this. A true report of very weird things, a mistake or misinterpretation of events, a hoax, whatever it may be, it’s clear Tobias is passionate about UFOs and this topic. That’s clear from reading his posts that appear all over the internet; he feels strongly enough to share his views and spread the word.

And I do thank him for replying and sending the photos.

Okay, so what about the case itself? We have:

UFOs and lights connected with a Bigfoot sighting

Photos (two of which are here)

a dead calf up in a tree

coyotes won’t go near the body

dead animals all over the place

Bigfoot type creature, referred to as “Ol Shaggy”

Sounds of tree hitting

footprints (were casts made?)

Bait left out for Shaggy taken

Tobias/Derr is “ex-military” (air force)

Case “shunned by media,” when submitted by Tobias/Derr

estimated 9ft creature seen and photographed

Creature disappeared “in a flash” when gun was aimed at it

The area in the daytime, photo courtesy of Tobias.


Early evening, as one of the encounters was happening, with light in distance. The dead calf was found in the tree:


Derr’s thoughts on Bigfoot, stated in the earlier post, there is no “real” Bigfoot:

the truth on Bigfoot is easy to give you... the situation is that aliens will wear some type of costume to resemble a hairy ape creature rather than allow humans to see their recon units in their actual appearance ( as obviously alien) . the reason there is no credible reason to assume Bigfoot is real is due to the natural reproduction cycle on earth of creatures...

Personally, I have no problem with paranormal/supernatural Bigfoot, but this is a new one, and seems -- forgive me -- silly. His thoughts on Bigfoot as some kind of sentry or scout sent by aliens isn’t a new one however; see some of the accounts in Peter Guittilla’s Bigfoot Files book, for example.

Another comment I found interesting was this one:

I sent you a few pictures .. you can see if you look the trajectory of something moving very fast .. have now also found dead coyotes , squirrels , birds , fish in a pond for absolutely no reason .. think itsa sterilization practice run ?

The comment about the trajectory is interesting, and for some reason reminds me of events at the Skinwalker ranch, as recounted in the book Hunt for the Skinwalker.

One theory about cattle mutilations is one involving the government: government testing of livestock to monitor radiation, fallout, levels of poisons and chemicals in the environment, etc. Is there a connection here in some way?

Bigfoot in Arkansas
There's a report of a "Wild Man" in Arkansas from 1851, courtesy of the Bigfoot Encounters site.

And of course there's the Fouke Monster, the Bigfoot like creature that was seen frequently in the late 1960s and the '70s. There was a movie made in 1972:Legend of Boggy Creek about the sightings.

Culture of Contact: Jeremy Vaeni Interview

Do I come out and finally acknowledge I've been abducted? Do I sound like Minnie Mouse or Ertha Kitt? Find out on Culture of Contact!

Bigfoot: One of Seven Fortean Wonders of the World

Bigfoot/Yeti (and I'd include Yowie of course) is among the 7 Fortean Wonders of the World.

For a Small Fee . . .

Well, the paranormal New Year has started off with an interesting kick in the pants. I just recevied the following e-mail today. I'm posting the entire thing here:
very interesting writer you are. i saw your comments about being a woman bigfoot researcher,

i am sending this out to people. i am not involved with the bigfoot researchers in any way...

Attention Researcher :
for your review ,

-a bigfoot case with a ufo sighting and captured on still photos of ufos-
[also can be described as strange lights in forested, rural area.]

date/Location of event : november 20 , 2007. late evening. Arkansas.

a bigfoot case with a ufo sighting and captured on film of the ufos.
this is the emailed released transcript of conversation of nic the witness / photographer/ rancher and the interviewer derr (steve tobias ufo researcher)...date of interview was dec 30, 2007

nic (n) : who are you ?

derr (d) : i am one of the last best hopes of earth-- against unknown alien hordes... makes yer day more bright just reading that i bet.

n-sending you images--here is one (ufo) departing .. fast .. the other photo sent less than a second later , they were in the western sky .. enclosed is a day pict so you can see no houses , no reflections , no sound either and they wernt that far away .. 400 yards maybe ? big enough for me to sit in one .. no bigger .. they were up in the trees on the hill .. found a dead calf the next morn .. coyotes wont eat it .. very strange , they will eat a pet off your chain in the yard , but not this calf , we drug it off with a tractor .. its decaying very nicely .. ya think yer alone derr, in your views ?
I sent you a few pictures .. you can see if you look the trajectory of something moving very fast .. have now also found dead coyotes , squirrels , birds , fish in a pond for absolutely no reason .. think itsa sterilization practice run ? whole area of the woods thinned out including possums , racoons , deer .. still some but not as nuch as normal .. 50% maybe less just is dead,was very lucky and knew something had been / was there . we also have a lil ole creature who wanders in from Okla here .. (bigfoot)large guy , very shaggy , very angry .. and he is what I had been following when I got these picts ..before that I had been deep in the woods cutting seasoned wood .. I will get a pict of ole Shaggy soon , got him eating at a bait station .. he likes sweet feed with Sorghum .. see a few foot prints , hear him hitting trees, and I thought I was crazy .. nice to know someone else thinks about this too. - Nic

d-based on your witnessing of such an event ( and generously sharing info with me) and finding a dead carcass and based on the location of the sighting i am willing to share information with you on my recent work if you promise to share it with as many people as you possibly can , whether they are interested in the subject or not...
let me know if you wish for this recent research material but i advise you its made by someone who has impeccable credentials and is also ex us air force and is info not seen by the public since tv news and newspapers refuse to contact me after i contacted them...-Derr

d- my assessment of the ufo photo Nic has sent is exceptionally important based on the others you sent showing the area is without any normal light source from humans.i am one of the best ufo researchers (not part of the govt) alive in the usa who is relatively unknown... i started to release info in 2006 and 2007 but been involved with the issues since 1991 -Derr

n-taken in Southern Washington Co Arkansas .. 11-20-07 after dark .. that's west behind us .. no reflected light , I was surprised you could see them .. see the big shape under the tree line? like 9 ft tall dude .. walked really weird too , side to side heavy swagger wal;k .. I treid to mimic it but just cant .. my hips wont move out like that .. very strange as I said .. we are just a couple of good ole boys who had been sober that day .. go figure ..Rancher R. was pulling a bead on him with a .243 caliber rifle and I took the pict .. and zoom , everything was gone , a little flash and ....nothing but a breeze .. it was so quiet , like the sound had been sucked out of the world for a few moments and when we got there .. a dead calf. It was the same calf that earlier we went thru herding cattle 2 hours before, was pushing heads with other calves,running and bucking at the jeep , very odd , we dont talk about it, you have my permission to use the picts any way you want to . who knows what it is ? -Nic

d-about the bigfoot sightings you have had , the truth on bigfoot is easy to give you... the situation is that aliens will wear some type of costume to resemble a hairy ape creature rather than allow humans to see their recon units in their actual appearance ( as obviously alien) . the reason there is no credible reason to assume bigfoot is real is due to the natural reproduction cycle on earth of creatures... there are always imperfectly made creations... thus there is no bigfoot since there has never been recorded info of sick ones or blind ones or deaf ones or handicapped ones ever... thus you have the rubiks cube theory that allows you to see there is no real bigfoot...there are reports of unknown large creatures however... so thus my explanation is of a tactical nature...the bigfoot seen is the scout who makes sure the humans do not get closer to whatever work is being done by alien scout forces on the ground... when they finish they depart... the bigfoot disguised creatures are like sentries...apparently the tactic works very well.... - Derr

d- linda moulton howe and some other researchers have an online presence and deal with cattle or animal deaths and the interaction of same with possible alien life forms since at least. since you are a witness to something odd you can make out a report to give to your own state's ufo report organization--you can see if mufon has a chapter in your state... if you wish to have more information about my work--- i can never give any thing but the worse case scenarios to people due to the ufo cover up of information by the cover up agencies... some of which are not really part of the official govt in wash dc. -Derr
d -your pics would be important based on any observations you write about their movements and if you assumed they were flying in or through wooded areas that human aircraft could not fly thru safely....
you were lucky to get a ufo image-- and now you may be realizing the so called bigfoot you were after is picked up by the crew upon the end of their mission whatever it is... maybe you are beginning to see the entire puzzle with these added pieces... -Derr
from Derr :
(ufo researchers)
i repeat the witness most important comments here:
n-taken in Southern Washington Co Arkansas .. 11-20-07 after dark .. that's west behind us .. no reflected light , I was surprised you could see them .. see the big shape under the tree line? like 9 ft tall dude .. walked really weird too , side to side heavy swagger wal;k .. I treid to mimic it but just cant .. my hips wont move out like that .. very strange as I said .. we are just a couple of good ole boys who had been sober that day .. go figure ..Rancher R. was pulling a bead on him with a .243 caliber rifle and I took the pict .. and zoom , everything was gone , a little flash and ....nothing but a breeze .. it was so quiet , like the sound had been sucked out of the world for a few moments and when we got there .. a dead calf. It was the same calf earlier when we went thru herding cattle 2 hours before, was pushing heads with other calves, running and bucking at the jeep , very odd , we dont talk about it .. you have my permission to use the picts any way you want to . who knows what it is ? -Nic
( end of the released transcript )

: photos in possession of the witness and the organization cippac headed by Derr *1,

: witness wishes to be paid for his contributions and cippac agrees so please offer a small payment if you wish to have the photos.

*1 - Derr is Steve Tobias, UFO Researcher since 1991
and Veteran US Air Force .

: disseminate this information widely once you have obtained the photographs or feel its a valid event / sighting .

: google search phrase "steve tobias ufo" to see some of the latest work by Derr (S. Tobias)

For "a small payment" I can have the photos. Maybe I'm a snob, but I am always immediately suspicious when I come across postings like this that are written so poorly, with improper punctuation, etc. I don't trust them.

And while I can't blame someone for wanting credit for their research, and the fact they want to make sure their work, including photographs, artwork, etc. is protected, (I know I expect credit where it's due, and get very peeved when someone alters or rips off my work) there's the other side of it as well, which is sharing the data with others. If he wants a "small payment" why doesn't he write a book? (Didn't the witness say Derr/Tobias could have the photos?)

I did respond, asking him if he's received responses from Bigfoot researhcers. What sent off the final red flag for me was his quick response that: no, I'm the first to respond, and, could we chat on the phone? That makes me uncomfortable. For now, I'll pass, see where this goes, and if anyone else has received this same e-mail.

I Googled 'Steve Tobias, UFO researcher" and found these links:

A YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcMGCtPPLmw&feature=related

He's commented on various forums about ufos and related topics, such as here:
http://forgetomori.com/2007/science/meteorite-makes-30-meter-crater-in-peru/

And he's posted comments on Greg Bishop's UFO Mystic:
http://www.ufomystic.com/wake-up-down-there/ufo-researchers-and-the-us-government/

There's more of course but this should give readers an idea of the flavor of the thing.

Happy New Year!

Footage of The Michigan Dogman?: The Gable Film

Playing blog-link tag, I found the following site very interesting. First saw it mentioned on Lesley’s Debris Field, who pointed the way to Nick Redfern’s
There’s Something in The Woods, where Nick talks briefly about the Gable film (not Clark Gable, something else entirely) which leads us here, the Michigan Dogman Encounters.

[Glitterfy.com - *Glitter Photos*]

Official Statement From Mary Green

Mary Green on her views about her co-author Janice Carter. Not pretty; as usual, the people involved in both Bigfoot and UFO research are as fascinating as the phenomena itself. I don't know any of the parties involved and so have no comment; except to say, from what I've read, something of interest has gone on with Mary Green, from my perspective, and somehow, in typical Trickster behavior, it's gotten all mixed up with stuff like this. It's too bad because most Bigfoot researchers want to avoid this kind of stuff and so will stay away from Green.

Anyway, you can read her comments on Coleman's Cryptomundo blog.

Yeti and Bigfoot Art

For no reason, just because they're fun, here are some images of Yeti, Bigfoot, etc. from vintage comic books and other places:

Yeti Blog

Stumbling around the internets, I found this I Love the Yeti.
http://ilovetheyeti.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html

And another nifty blog, Monsterama.
http://monsterama.blogspot.com/

Bigfoot Threads and Skeptics

Persistent, chronic, pathological skeptics can’t help themselves. I suppose they just love to hear themselves talk. After all, over on the JREF (James Randi “Educational” Forum) it’s their turf; if they base all of their beliefs on the creed that there’s no such thing as Sasquatch, no way, end- of -discussion -and -don’t -even -bring -up -ufo- paranormal- psychic-bigfoot, then why do they have four separate threads going about Bigfoot? One is something like over 200 pages long!

I have no desire to post over there, none, you can be assured of that. There are a few brave souls who give it a try. But I do lurk, and I tell you, it’s a study in human behavior all right.

There’s “Bigfoot is real, I have the proof.” at 38 pages.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=96467

“Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film” at 241 pages.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=42523


“Bigfoot: The Invisible Variety,” at 35 pages
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=94981

“Simple Challenge for Bigfoot Supporters”, at 130 pages.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70782

That’s all a hell of a lot of discussion over something you’re convinced doesn’t exist.

New From Lisa Shiel

Lisa Shiel used to have the blog Bigfoot Quest. She's now reformed it to Backyard Phenomena. Shiel still focuses on Bigfoot, but the new blog isn't confined to just Bigfoot.

Cuta and paste if link doesn't work: http://backyardphenomena.blogspot.com/

Pinning Down

But what about the people?! . . .

I always want to pin down the chronic skeptics and others who flat out don't “believe in” Bigfoot.

I understand the genuine skeptical perspective of wanting evidence. But it’s also here we get into trouble. For plaster casts of footprints, reports and recordings of tree knocking and screams, grainy, fuzzy video and photos, and tantalizing but inconclusive results from hair samples are debatable, they are evidence. Not proof, but evidence. And as open to debate as they are, (for crying out loud, just take a look at the three or four Bigfoot threads on the uber faux skeptic forum JREF) those things are evidence.

There’s one kind of evidence that isn’t accepted, and that’s anecdotal evidence. The refusal to accept anecdotal evidence as valid has seeped from the infrastructure of scientism (you can’t prove anything with an oral report of an encounter from a witness in a lab) to the rest of the culture. Skeptics of all varieties, and even some who should know better, accept the idea that anecdotal evidence is really not evidence at all. It's not valid.

This stubbornly smug stance forgets that, without anecdotal evidence to begin with, there’d be nothing to go out and investigate in the first place. Observation is a much a part of science as anything else, and yet, the observers and their reports are rejected.

Even that’s beside the point. The point is, I want those who reject the idea Bigfoot exist to address the fact of witness stories.

What do they think of the people with stories to tell? Not just one or two cases, but several dozen, at least. Story after story of Bigfoot encounters. And yet the faux skeptic plods on with condescending explanations of how humans get scared in the woods, how under stress we mistake an elk or bear for a Sasquatch, how we’re influenced by other tales of Bigfoot and that’s what our belief systems make us think, etc.

How can anyone genuinely keep this up in the light of hundreds of witnesses? Allowing for the usual disclaimer of hoaxers, liars and the mentally ill (that last a very small percentage I’m sure) we still have a huge amount of data in the way of witness reports.

I always wonder what one of these skeptic types would do if their spouse, child or close relative or friend said they saw a Sasquatch. Believe me, if I saw a Sasquatch, and my husband insisted, with persistent smugness, that I was misidentifying a known animal, or I was fearful of the big dark woods, etc. I’d leave him. (And, in fact, I know personally someone who did divorce over not being believed in regards to UFOs )

After awhile, the insistence we "make things up," to quote skeptic Michael Shermer, really shows itself to be the flimsy excuse it is for not paying attention.


When faced with the reality of people’s -- fellow human beings -- experiences, I think it would be difficult to keep up the “you just mistook a bear you were scared you’re a liar were you drinking?” routine. That would be a real test, to step outside of the walls of scientism and really listen for a time. What do you hear in these stories, what do you see when the person you're sitting across from is telling you their story?

Observation. Listening. Hearing. For some, that's as scary as encountering a Bigfoot.

“Show me the body”

Only a cold hard body will do . . .

In the article Bigfoot: Fact or Fiction as a sidebar to They’re on a mission to find Bigfoot in California, Michael Shermer, persistent uber skeptic, had this to say:

“Show me the body,” says Dr. Michael Shermer, executive director of the Altadena-based Skeptics society. “No one names a new species based on anecdotal evidence such as something spooky they heard in the night.”

Anecdotal evidence is still evidence however, and valid evidence. It isn’t enough to shout to the world Sasquatch exists, but it’s a start. That isn’t what has me shaking my head in a moment of surreal cognitive dissonance ; it’s the following comment by Shermer in response to Dr. Jeff Medlrum's plans to start an on line journal (The Relic Hominoid Inquiry,”) devoted to discussion and research on the topic:

Such efforts, Shermer says, are an exercise in futility.

Yes, but isn’t looking for something not yet proven to exist kind of scientific and all? If you want to find out if a thing exists, and you reject anecdotal evidence, why reject other avenues of exploration? Particularly avenues of exploration from your colleagues? (Yes, Mr. Shermer, Dr. Meldrum is too a scientist.) Isn’t making available and encouraging discussion of the thing you want to find out about a right step on the road to scientific discovery? Or at least inquiry?

Do faux skeptics even want Bigfoot to be found?

Let’s do it the uber way for a moment; going about it following the proper channels of the Scientism Code of How We Do Things. Anecdotal evidence, out! Okay. So the only other way to see if Bigfoot exists is to go out and look for it, right? And take castings of prints that could be, might be, of the big hairy darling. And chronicle the associated events in the context of Bigfoot encounters/sightings; wood knocking, rock throwing, scents, calls. Gather data.

And even encouraging other scientific individuals -- instead of the average Joe these pathological skeptics dismiss with such snooty rejection -- to communicate with each other.

And yet, confusingly, the Shermers of the world don’t see these endeavors as good things, or even well meaning but misguided things. Their minds seem to be made up, even while making dramatic demands: don’t waste time looking for Bigfoot or seriously studying the topic, but do please bring me a dead body.

Mr. Shermer seems more concerned with the evils of the imagination than looking for Bigfoot:

People have genuine experiences. The question is – what do those experiences represent?” Shermer says. “People have incredible imaginations. We're really good at just making stuff up.”

Let’s play their game and ask for proof, or at least really good evidence, that this is so. Shermer made a statement, now let’s see him prove it. Why and how do we make things up, and to what end? Why would the Bigfoot encounters share similarities? How does that all work; how and why do our minds create a big ass hairy monster in the woods? And why is that this hallucination, for lack of a better word, appears to more than one person at times (multiple witnesses) ? If we are to use the stale and often abused Occam’s Razor, Shermer’s “explanation” seems the less likely one. Are we to seriously accept that people, particularly those that live in rural and remote areas, are so unfamiliar with the local flora and fauna, so out of touch with the natural rhythms of their environment, so distanced from the behavior and personalities of their own pets and animals (cattle, sheep, etc.) that they have to “make stuff up?”

Blogsquatcher: Bleating of the Goats Part 2

Part 2 of The Bleating of the Goats by Blogsquatcher. Good reading! I was intrigued the whole time, reading his report. The dream is interesting I think, as well. (What dream, you may ask. Well, go over there and read it!)

Run, Bigfoot, Run!

Here's hoping Bigfoot stays hidden . . .

I’m conflicted. I enjoy watching television shows about Bigfoot. I’m right there with the field researchers, making plaster casts of prints, setting up game cameras, and tromping through the crunchy woods at night with night vision goggles strapped to my face. I’m interested in the evidence collected, and the conclusions on the analysis.

At the same time, I cringe when I see investigators coming up with twists on how to attract Bigfoot. Hanging CDs in the trees or wind chimes, playing recordings of animal sounds, pheromone traps, and so on. At some point, the idea of actively looking for Bigfoot changes from interesting to intrusive, as well as pointless.

I always have the feeling that Bigfoot is well aware of the team about to descend on its territory long before the team gets any whiff of Bigfoot. For that reason alone, the chances of Bigfoot being found seem slight.

For the people who’ve seen Bigfoot, no proof is needed. After all, they’ve seen it! (Although, for some of them -- naturally I can’t speak for any witness -- proof might be welcome, if only to prove to family, friends and community they’re not lying or crazy.)

What of the aftermath? Bigfoot is found to exist; now what? There are laws already in place in some areas protecting Bigfoot. For some unfathomable reason, this irks many a scofftoid. If we waited until after Bigfoot is found to create and implement such laws, there’s a window where harm to Bigfoot could be done, with no legal consequences to the one doing the harm.

Then there’s the issue of habitat; varied, it seems, since Bigfoot has been reported in many diverse areas all over the U.S. The time, money and creaky process of law will be a circus, while Bigfoot remains vulnerable and the less ethical and moral will be out in droves hunting down the creature.

So, I’m conflicted. I love the search even while hoping Bigfoot is never finally found. I like the elusive photos that are tantizling; just enough but not quite enough to satisfy. I like the continued debate over footprints (for example, see the JREF forum for endless debates over the usefullness of prints) and the weight it gives to Bigfoots existence. I like the personal experiences of researchers and witnesses; they remain elusive and “just” anecdotal eveidence which all too often is not valid for skeptics and others alike.

These kinds of things keeps Bigfoot in the shadows, which is where I hope it stays. Some may get glimpses, but never enough to bring out into the harsh light of “discovery.”

Over on Blogsquatcher: Oregon "bigfoot" and a great story

As usual, Blogsquatcher has some good items. One is Part I of a story about following up on reports of Bigfoot sightings. As is often the case, the people invovled are as interesting as the Fortean/weird/anomalous thing they're going after.

There's also a video from my state of Oregon of a "Bigfoot."

About Those Yeti Tracks And Other Big Hairy Monsters

A sort of mini round-up of recent items . . .

Items popping up about the recent Yeti track, assuming it is a Yeti track.

On cryptomundo, Snowman Movie, Meditation and Mental Telepathy, which is intriguing!

Then there’s lThe Truth About the Abominable Snowman, which worries me. Anytime anyone claims to have “the truth” about the weird or religion, I know that I can’t take much of what they have to say too seriously. But then it is from the Live Science site, so they you go.

No comments:

Greg Bishop, over on UFO Mystic, has an item about the Olympics mascot. And it’s . . . it’s . . . Bigfoot! Yes, it is.

There’s “Quatchi,” among others. And if you visit the creator's site
you’ll find Chuppy’s Crypto Zoo. Chuppy is:

. . . a young girl raised by wild creatures (Chupacabras) in the desert of New Mexico. Chuppy and her friends operate a run-down zoo where there are sea monsters, yetis, faeries and grumpy unicorns.

I’m sure I’d be grumpy too if I were living in a “run down zoo” in the hot desert.

This seems pretty seedy to me; not your warm and fuzzy tales, but a sleazy cross cultural lost in the translation derelict cute-isfication of the anomalous.

The comments left by readers on UFO Mystic are worth reading as well. Be sure to take a look.

Yeti Footprints on Mt. Everest?

Destination Truth, a U.S. television program about “crypto-zoological creatures and unexplained phenomena” found three prints they believe are of the Yeti while filming in Nepal.

Cut and paste the url below for story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071130/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_nepal_yeti;_ylt=AtdXPJCKEfWcVpzr4bSAwSbtiBIF

Blogsquatcher blog: Bigfoot Abduction?

The Blogsquatcher has become one of my favorite Bigfoot blogs, the other being Lisa Shiel’s Bigfoot Quest. Here’s an interesting account of a “bigfoot abduction” near Yosimite National Park in California:
Story of abduction by bigfoot? With descendants . . .